tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post5575098229620368502..comments2024-02-11T06:57:23.174-05:00Comments on SchansBlog: five myths about Mormonism?Eric Schansberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16147388189415035752noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-11461504356128874242011-12-01T18:10:15.334-05:002011-12-01T18:10:15.334-05:00Yes, I read your post on "How wide the divide...Yes, I read your post on "How wide the divide" quite some time ago, but had forgotten about it.<br /><br />As Mormons, we do not run from our heterodoxy, but we resist being defined by terms that we do not agree with such as "non-Christian" or "cult."MWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04253798239054192036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-1210581608851187732011-12-01T16:56:50.141-05:002011-12-01T16:56:50.141-05:00Many folks-- however they self-identify: Mormon, e...Many folks-- however they self-identify: Mormon, evangelical or other-- believe in some form of "grace-plus" salvation. <br /><br />Check them out sometime, especially if you want to have a format for talking with an evangelical about common ground and differences.Eric Schansberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16147388189415035752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-43428691407775055152011-12-01T16:46:30.687-05:002011-12-01T16:46:30.687-05:00Of course Mormons believe in folks being saved by ...Of course Mormons believe in folks being saved by grace. In fact, if I am not mistaken, non-Mormon Christians will inherit exactly the glory they now imagine if they stick with what they now do and believe (i.e. no eternal marriage, no eternal families in heaven). Christ rescues us from spiritual death, i.e. separation from the Father (but there we go into the Trinity debate as well, as we do not believe in the Trinity in the same way that most Christians do).<br /><br />I've read neither of those books.MWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04253798239054192036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-11107234276524467192011-12-01T14:27:46.897-05:002011-12-01T14:27:46.897-05:00All religions make truth claims that are "exc...All religions make truth claims that are "exclusive" in that sense. To the extent that a self-styled Evangelical Christians makes the exclusive claim that "it's their way or the highway" (to Hell, Purgatory, or some lower level of Heaven), then they're in the same position. Outside of Catholicism and Mormonism, I can only think of "Churches of Christ" as a notable exception. <br /><br />I'm leery of any religious label-- particularly if it carries baggage of legalism or libertinism. The term "Christian" is so broad as to be virtually useless; "evangelical" is not a lot better. <br /><br />I haven't heard Evangelical leaders describe Mormons in those terms-- and wouldn't understood why they would go there. <br /><br />At the end of the day, the larger issue is one's personal relationship with God, rather than the religious group to which one belongs. You either that you're saved fully by the grace of God-- or not. <br /><br />For example, I remember Barna's research a few years back, where self-identifying Mormons were twice as likely as Episcopalians to hold the biblically orthodox position on the key doctrines of the faith. As I joke with some of my Evangelical friends: if Mormons are in a cult, what do we say about the Episcopalians? <br /><br />Have you read "How Wide the Divide?" or "Claiming Christ"? I've read the former-- and studied it along with a Mormon friend of mine. Good stuff!<br /><br />Grace and peace to you....ericEric Schansberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16147388189415035752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-69554840377173425132011-12-01T13:44:04.930-05:002011-12-01T13:44:04.930-05:00it seems to me that evangelical Christians make ex...it seems to me that evangelical Christians make exclusive claims as well, but since they are loosely organized under a larger umbrella of "true Christianity" they can claim that it is not exclusive.<br /><br />I'm a Mormon. I am actually very wary of being lumped in with evangelicals. The day that Mormonism is seen as little different than evangelical Christianity is the end of Mormonism. On the other hand, I don't think evangelicals can rightly claim exclusive ownership of the word "Christian."<br /><br />It's ironic that Mormon leadership can be criticized as corporate, bland, indistinguishable from protestant leaders (see recent Hitchens screed), yet at the same time a cult. I guess this goes under the theory that Mormonism is both boring and dangerous.MWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04253798239054192036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-74422226093775598192011-11-30T11:17:33.630-05:002011-11-30T11:17:33.630-05:00I think your first paragraph is not only cute, but...I think your first paragraph is not only cute, but accurate and apropos. That said, my sense is that there is (far?) more variance among Evangelicals-- whether self-styled or by some attempt at an objective definition-- on this question, from works-righteousness to "cheap grace". Do you have a sense of either or both populations? <br /><br />To be clear, I'm not saying that any of these are "cults" (however that's defined!), but they are often seen/described as such. My point is that if you claim to have a special revealed truth, church hierarchy, or claims of authority, then you shouldn't be surprised when that label gets trotted out. Moreover, I'm not sure one can really complain about the label very much either. It seems to me that it's part of the baggage that necessarily follows exclusive claims in the realm of religion. Do you concur with that?Eric Schansberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16147388189415035752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8241505550351823820.post-35619881456423946422011-11-30T11:07:37.628-05:002011-11-30T11:07:37.628-05:00You said "To the extent that Mormonism has a ...You said "To the extent that Mormonism has a tendency toward works-righteousness, the picture of a 'watered-down' sacrament is apropos." So would it be fair if I said "To the extent that Evangelical Christianity has a tendency towards grace-only theology, the picture of a 'drunken' sacrament is apropos"? It might be cute to say that, but would it be accurate? <br /><br />Also, I don't understand the inclination to consider the Catholic Church to be a cult.<br /><br />The difference between the Mormons/Catholics and the hodge-podge of Protestant sects and one-off churches is the claim of *direct* priesthood authority and ordinance. Which the Protestants have abandoned. I'm not sure claims of authority make a church a cult.MWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04253798239054192036noreply@blogger.com